Former White House chiefs of staff talk shop at Notre Dame

Former White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough and fellow Former White House Chief of Staff Andy Card met at Notre Dame for a discussion on foreign policy Wednesday night.

These two men are from opposite ends of an era. Card was the man who whispered to President bush that America was under attack on 9/11, and McDonough was in the situation room with President Obama when Osama Bin Laden was killed.

Together, they touched on the controversial issues they had to deal with while they served the president. Issues like interrogation methods in the Bush administration and drones in the Obama administration were polarizing topics still discussed today.

Card says alternative interrogation methods came into play, when they had to throw out the rule book on war to fight terrorism.

"The unusual aspect of this war, it wasn't against a nation state," Card said. "So there was a constitutional question, but we weren't declaring war on another state. it was terrorists and terrorism. There was no textbook to follow, no law to follow. The closest thing that came to it was fighting the pirates, maybe, in the early 1800's."

Both men have been through different times in the White House under different presidents. They say the current administration is worrisome, but they have high hopes.

"I have had a rule that I've tried to impose on people who worked at the White House, suggest to people who run to be president, I've actually suggested it to sitting presidents, sometimes much to my chagrin, but anyway I've done it," Card said. "The rule is a simple one. Taste your words before you spit them out... I give the White House poor marks for discipline with words. I give them high marks for internal discipline about serving the president...I'm gonna say I really want him to succeed and I hope that he will find the discipline to do it well."

"I think there's enough to be concerned about that I worry about what I see as I watch," McDonough said. "I want, as Andy said, the president and John Kelly to succeed, because, I think, I want to make sure that the country succeeds."

Recently, President Trump and some of his administration have been butting heads. Even this week, reports that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called President Trump a "moron" have come out. Tillerson then denied the claim. The former chiefs of staff hope that the nation and the white house can focus on more pressing matters at hand.

"Looks like he denied what looked like unsourced rumors overnight," McDonough said. "My hope would be rather than we focus on this kind of thing, we can get our whole government, led by the secretary of state, focused on major challenges like the nuclear, continuing nuclear, crisis in North Korea."

With the looming threat in mind, the former chiefs are looking to the current administration to get back on the right track.

"[We] want to make sure that we're not giving them reason to continue their bluster," McDonough said. "So I hope we go back to Teddy Roosevelt and walking softly while we carry what is clearly a big stick here. But also, we don't need to contribute to any further escalation of the back and forth with the North Koreans."

Both men faced the issues surrounding and following the tragedy of 9/11. They both say they will never forget any tragedy like that and if someone harms the USA, it may take a while, but they will be tracked down and the price will be paid.