Local car dealers, economist weigh in on Big 3 talks
Local car dealers, economist weigh in on Big 3 talks Save Email Print
Posted: 6:17 PM Dec 4, 2008
Last Updated: 9:56 PM Dec 4, 2008
Reporter: Ryan Famuliner
Email Address: ryan.famuliner@wndu.com

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For Big 3 dealerships and their 740,000 employees nationwide it's already been in a tough year as sales have dropped to nightmarish levels. But local dealerships hope the bad dream ends when the Big 3 CEO’s can convince congress to pass a bailout plan.

Whatever happens on Capitol Hill regarding the Big 3 bailout, it is sure to have a major impact in Michiana.

At the most basic level, dealerships throughout the area could see a change in what cars are on their lots, or even see their lots disappear altogether.

Bailout or no bailout, there will be some noticeable changes across the country, and here in Michiana.

Take for example, Grape Road in Mishawaka.

The owner of Gurley Leep says the results of congress denying a bailout would be devastating.

He says bankruptcy would be a virtual death sentence for any of the big three. He says while their business is likely diversified enough to make it through, it could be devastating for dealerships, especially in small towns, that only sell domestic cars.

Meanwhile, if the bailout did go through; places like the Saturn dealership just down the road from Gurley Leep would likely be in limbo.

Saturn is one of the car makes on GM's list that would be sold or liquidated under the current bailout plan.

But economists and dealers alike say there is a need for some sort of lifeline.

“It has a ripple effect. For every job lost in the auto industry, 2 or 3 are lost in the support areas like part manufacturers, etc. So it’s a really important industry we really do need (to help),” said St Mary’s economics professor Mike Robinson.

“They made a big deal about (the big 3 CEO’s) flying their private jets there or taking the hybrid cars there. Nobody cares about that or nobody should care about that,” said Tim Trump of Campbell Ford in Niles.

“People's perception is the guys that are sitting there in front of the congress; those are the guys they think congress is bailing out. But they’re not. It’s the guy that works in my detail department that makes minimum wage, or the guys that clean the dealership. The suppliers, the guy that drives the trucks; you know all of those people are the people they need to think about,” Trump said.

Many are concerned that one auto maker going into bankruptcy could bring all three down because they are so inter-connected.

“It would be a catastrophe if one or more of the U.S. auto companies failed, you know, if they were liquidated. Hopefully if they have to go into bankruptcy they can be reorganized and cut back on expenses,” Robinson said.

Local dealers seem to agree with most economists that going into bankruptcy would be very dangerous.

Although it can actually help some companies get back on track, they think consumers would be very hesitant to buy American cars in general if one or more of the big 3 went bankrupt.

They recognize this is uncharted territory. The only comparison the economics professor we talked to today could come up with in U.S. history was Studebaker.

When they went into bankruptcy, as we well know, they did not make it out.

Meanwhile the owner of Gurley Leep said his major point of contention is that this wouldn't be a ‘bailout,’ but a loan that he feels could be paid off with interest without much trouble.

He hopes congress believes that too.

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Posted by: Chaz Location: South Bend on Dec 6, 2008 at 10:12 AM
The labor used to create a car represents only 10% of the cost of the vehicle. The other 90% is parts, service and advertising costs and profit. The average UAW employee makes about $37 an hour when you factor in all their benefits like retirement, insurance, disability, etc. The way they got to that $70 an hour lie was adding in all the benefits that are paid ot all current and retired employees and dividing it by the number of current employees. It's a bald faced lie to say that a UAW person makes $70 an hour. And it the height of hipocrasy to say that the UAW is the problem when the big 3 execs all make millions per year and middle management all make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Perhaps they're oxygen deprived form all that flying they do in their corporate jets.

Posted by: Local Biz Owner on Dec 6, 2008 at 01:30 AM
Don't believe anything the BBB states. They take in all kinds of nonsense complaints and fail to tell people that lots of the complaints are not valid/or are just plain ridiculous. They are no more than a paper pusher and they can't say who was right wrong or indifferent. They have no power. My mother got sick from the new car smell and now I want the dealership to pay her for lost wages and give me a more expensive car. Nonsense. The BBB won't tell you that a case was closed because the person that complained was an jerk. They just say it was closed. This makes the consumers think badly of a business they are checking on. The best source of info is the Indiana State Attorney Generals Office for consumer issues. Also if a customer has a a legitimate complaint they should take it to small claims court or see the attorney general. Lots of key board bullies complain about businesses every day and most of the complaints are from people who whine and want something for free.

Posted by: unprofitable on Dec 5, 2008 at 10:21 PM
GM is failing because of the UAW. Not possible to be profitable with their outrageous demands. Why should the rest of society finance the autoworkers? Often the workers get outrageous hourly wages, go out and blow all their money, then get laid off because wage expense is too high. It would be better to give them lower wages and job security/year-round work. Also, I can only imagine how much the CEO and top executives make. CEO's cannot make millions of dollars in an unprofitable company. Again, why should the rest of society foot the bill for the greedy CEO's. Let them fail and start over with a cost conscious plan.

Posted by: ts on Dec 5, 2008 at 05:10 PM
If you want to know why GM is failing. Its not the cars, its the dealers. For example, go to the Indiana BBB and look up Gurley-leeps history in just the last 3 yrs. 41 BBB complaints in just 36 months. Whats that tell you about this dealer. They have to buy more dealerships just to keep their sales up. How sad!!!

Posted by: Mary Location: Niles on Dec 5, 2008 at 01:22 PM
They should've used a personal car instead of driving an advertisement for Volt. It may not be personal loans, However - their decisions that they have made in the public eye so far can lead us to how they may run their companys'.......sad....talk about greed! Car pool with your own car - not a company vehicle advertising a new hybrid........talk about a photo-op.

Posted by: Chaz Location: South Bend on Dec 5, 2008 at 12:42 PM
GM has between 6500 and 7000 dealers in the US. Toyota, which sells about the same number of vehicles, has less than 1/2 that number. Same thing with Ford and Chrysler. Of course none of the dealerships can be closed due to state and federal laws prohibiting that. What has to happen eventually is that about 1/2 the dealerships will be gone. Accept that fact now guys. I say let Chrysler fail and bail out the other 2. Chrysler is a privately held company now. The other 2 are at least still publicly traded.

Posted by: Prez Location: SB on Dec 5, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Where was everyone when we grilled Freddie and Fannie before just handing them money to bail out the housing market. AS an auto part supplier for 20 years I have seen the extended waste of the big 3 first hand. But seriously how can the goverment talk about anyone or company needing to be leaner and more efficient. ( "Hey Kettle your BLACK"). We bail out the goverments ineffectiveness every time our taxes go up, how many Billions do you think that can amount to. Unions thats a whole nother issue...90% of my wage for years after I don't even work, It's no wonder the big 3 are scrambling. I't s not because of any private jet or executive perk.(which is about 3% of the problem.) Focus on getting rid of the UAW Make loans DIRT CHEAP to get sales moving. Give them loans with concessions on getting leaner and greener. Give them breaks or credit for bringing work back from Asia and Mexico. Lets get America moving again toward something we can all be proud of.

Posted by: Jack Location: Culver on Dec 5, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Flying to Washinton in corp. jets says they don't get it. They want someone else to carry the burden they created. They want the stupid American public to continue to drive SUV's because they are their most profitable lines. They created the demand with their advertising. How many of us need a four wheel drive to get through the streets of Mishawaka. And now who can afford the gas. Throwing all this money into the market is inflationary, in fact, too many dollars chasing too few goods is the definition of inflation. The way out of this is the creation of jobs. We need to support the auto workers but not the executives that will get their outrageous salaries and bonuses out of this. They just don't get it.

Posted by: mike Location: mishawaka on Dec 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Could i love my job if one of the "Big 3" fail...yes...do i want them to fail...YES! Times may be getting worse for me, but not nearly as bad as this country will become if they loan the big 3 any money. Any idiot who took basic history lessons in school can quickly see world economies go through cycles, its what keeps those economies constantly innovating and progressing. Its a natural (albiet sometimes painful) process. The big 3 have done nothing but create and market crap for the last 20 years. Dont even get me started on the UAW! They are the most worthless, parasitic, cancer to this country that has ever been created. Their initial intentions were good, but quickly fell victim to greed and that is where they have stayed ever since. Let them all fail, its what they deserve!

Posted by: Anonymous on Dec 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Instead of subsidizing the big 3, how about subsidizing car buyers over a 5 year period, with a flat rate voucher, this could benefit everybody. I drive ford and have never owned Japanese.

Posted by: Tim Location: Goshen on Dec 5, 2008 at 10:38 AM
This is what happens when you make a poor product. In addition it's justification for hundreds of thousands of workers that never graduated from high school let alone college...they make $30-$40 and $50.00 an hour...they got the job because mommy and daddy worked there forever and the union loves nepotism... therefore the incompatance spread. Well forever is over! This demise is totally justified...buy a Honda, Hyundi, or Toyota. It's over for the big three...bail out or not. Auto workers with no education living in $300.000 dollar homes with boats and two or three SUV's...party's over folks!

Posted by: mike Location: niles on Dec 5, 2008 at 10:23 AM
credit crissis? i have yet to see that. i have a job and a slighty betteer than aveerage credit score and have had no trouble at all borrowing money at very low interest rates.

Posted by: STEVE Location: JONES on Dec 5, 2008 at 10:06 AM
I hope HeartlessCity closes after what they did to me & by the way Toyota does not care. In memory of my mr2 spyder - Heartless City killed.

Posted by: Jack Location: Elkhart on Dec 5, 2008 at 09:54 AM
Scott you are the one that is an idiot. Not everyone that does not have a formal education is a moron, and certainly not everyone who goes to college is a genius.

Posted by: Mike Smith Location: Elkhart on Dec 5, 2008 at 09:49 AM
We're funding a day care system for people with extinct skills. I say let them die. We'll be a heck of a lot stronger in the long run if we just take the pain on this right now. They'll burn through it and be back for more. We're turning auto jobs into government-supported jobs and it's a shame. In just under two years, GM has lost $57 billion. Not hard to believe as this company has not posted a profit since 2004! The current quarter will provide more huge losses, and even in its regulatory documents the company admits that demand for its products isn't coming back soon. GM burned through $7 billion in cash in the third quarter and told the world it may not have the gas to see 2009, much less operate profitably next year. The credit default swap markets - yes, the same complicated monster fingered as an instigator of the credit chaos - is pulling the sheet over GM's head. Contact Your Democratic controlled congress and let him know, we the tax payers have had ENOUGH!

Posted by: ts on Dec 5, 2008 at 09:48 AM
hey leep, i think its time for the famous "SLASHER SALE" beep beep

Posted by: Pavi Location: South Bend on Dec 5, 2008 at 09:35 AM
Bail out or no bail out, we are in for a long haul. The economy needs to bounce back,preferably on it's own without government trying to help. They need to get out of the way and let buisnness's do the work. Lower taxes, less regulation, and less union demands will be what is needed to start down the path to recovery. It will not be easy, but growth sometimes equals pain.

Posted by: Z Location: Indiana on Dec 5, 2008 at 09:18 AM
As long as the UAW is involved, the shrinking 3 will have a difficult time making a profit even in a good economy. The decades of "that's not my job" mentality and sense of entitlement that plagues the these automakers falls squarly in the union's lap. Loans and an open line of credit will just allow for more of the same and we will be having the same discussions in 6-12 months. It will be painful for some and I could even lose my job, but at some point the economy has to run it's course. The thought of taxpayer's money being used to save the UAW (which is what this is really about) makes me physically sick to my stomach.

Posted by: Wolfgang on Dec 5, 2008 at 08:39 AM
There isn't an American car I would buy -- period. I've owned several European cars over the years. They are all superior in every respect, and more affordable to own over the ownership period, even if the initial cost is higher than American cars. Currently, I'm 5 years into an Audi that still runs and looks nearly new. At 4-5 years in American iron, I'd be hoping it just lasted until I could unload it. And it would only be worth about 20% of what I paid. I'm tired of people saying it's un-American to buy a foreign car. BS. Until the American car companies can make a comparable product, I won't consider an American car. It's the free market -- let the survivors prosper and the losers fail. The so-called "Big Three" should fail, and they ultimately will, whether now, or after 'bailout' money is spent. .

Posted by: Junkyard Dog on Dec 5, 2008 at 08:27 AM
There was never any question they would get the money, it is just a dog and pony show for the American public. They will get the money. Then the unions say they will do their part to help the auto makers, what a farce, they will have to anyway, if the auto makers did go belly up, the judge will make them do it anyway.

Posted by: aaron Location: mishawaka on Dec 5, 2008 at 07:58 AM
to anonymous at 8:32 p.m. you made reference to american junk in your blog. just don't forget general motors is responsible for the drivetrain on our hummer h1 which happens to be transporting our american soldiers to defend your sorry butt!!

Posted by: Tom Location: Centreville on Dec 5, 2008 at 07:43 AM
Mr. Trump is wrong, in my opinion, that we shouldn’t care that the big 3 CEO’s all traveled to DC in individual private jets. Not to mention that they make 17 times as much money as their counterparts at Japanese based competitors. It’s an attitude of entitlement that is pervasive in the upper management of american companies. They also blame the American public for not buying the smaller cars, but they have had a continuous advertizing blitz for trucks and SUV’s for years. If they had put more of that money into advertizing the fuel economy of their smaller cars, they could have had a larger share of that market. They are also suffering now due to the outsourcing of auto parts to other countries. They took jobs away from Americans who would have bought American cars and shipped the jobs to places where the workers don’t make enough money to even buy a car. They were killing their own customer base to save a little money on components.

Posted by: Jimj Location: St Joe on Dec 5, 2008 at 07:29 AM
This is just another scare tactic. You have to drive something so they go under it might be just a different kind of car in your driveway. Someone has to build them, sell them, work on them, it just depends on what name you slap on them. If they get this so called loan, when do they go back and beg for more? What kind of consessions are we the consumer going to get? A down payment on a new car is more than we paid for the whiole car 20 years ago! Help us buy your vehicles and maybe you wouldn't need a bail out. Who bails me out when my pay check only lasts 4 days now instead of 7?

Posted by: KEN Location: ELKHART on Dec 5, 2008 at 07:25 AM
POOR SERVICE AND OVER PRICE CARS AND TRUCKS I hope GURLEY LEEP is the 1st one to close.............

Posted by: Anonymous Location: elkhart on Dec 5, 2008 at 07:04 AM
Everyone has already heard of all the improper spending of this so called bail out money make MAJOR regulations for the company. If they think all that money is going to help the company WRONG it is going to the big wigs for more vacations or retreats or whatever they call it.

Posted by: Hogwash on Dec 5, 2008 at 05:55 AM
The "Big 3" have not been the "Big 3" in years. They are uncompetitive and bloated monstrosities. Let them go belly up, re-organize and come back meaner and leaner. I am tired of the govt. propping up people who make horrible business decisions and sending the bill to people who make GOOD financial decisions. Good-bye GM, Ford and Chrysler. You have not made anything I have wanted to buy in 40 years.

Posted by: Farmer Frank on Dec 5, 2008 at 03:28 AM
When ever the car makers stop selling vehicles with everything on them, including a butt wiper, the industry will start to come back. Who can afford a 30k vehicle that is basically used to run around town? Lets have some basic options like a heater/ seat belts/turnsignals. Ford invented the mass production of low priced automobile, and put one in most every household in america because they were affordable...what has happened here? Lets be practical michiana, if we're going to the other side of town, why do we need all the bells and whistles on a vehicle? . Now, what about those slick talking, high pressured sales people that make you think that you have to have your seats treated, extended warranty, leased but not owned vehicles? . The days of fluff are gone, how long will it take for the Big 3 to realize that and catch up with the foreign car makers that produce lower cost, better made vehicles? And dont get me started on that $30 an hour union laborer.....................

Posted by: Anonymous on Dec 5, 2008 at 01:32 AM
Try to avoid the Gurley- Leep Machine and buy out of town! It's hard to do when they own so many dealerships. And if you ask who owns the business you are mislead. Don't be fooled by the CEO's of the Big 3. They are where they are at because of mismanagement. If you make & over produce junk, pay to much in wages, and CEO perks, etc this is what happens. Someone will buy out the Big 3 or they will join forces. When you build a house of cards it will eventually come tumbling down. This should also serve as a wake call to all lazy american workers. There is no free ride.

Posted by: Scott Location: Granger on Dec 5, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Another example of people not having a clue that should learn HOW TO SPELL. Hey, morons, if you can't prove your point with proper spelling, then stop surfing the 16 website and start reading something that will bolster your life. As for the US car makers, UAW has killed you. Where else can an uneducated idiot make more money than a college trained graduate? Unions are dead and gone and deserve to die.

Posted by: Dan Location: bucktown on Dec 4, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Everyone cries about the foreign carmakers who make there cars at so much cheaper per hour labor. They do not realize that many foreign governments subsdise there products so they can sell at a cheaper price than other homegrown car makers. They also depend upon our country to protect them since they spend little on defense. So if you look at the big pitcher you can see other governments take advantage of the good old USA. When the banks go belly up their cronies in congress can not even blink and eye to give them a blank check, but when middle class America needs a bailout for millions of jobs to be saved they grill them like a burnt cheese sandwich. They all fly around on their private jets and never pay social security and retire after a short term in office. I say run them all out of Washington and start a new.If they do not give them a bailout we had all better learn how to grow a garden- can food- Fish and hunt for our meat- or all put a chicken coup in the back yard.

Posted by: mike Location: niles on Dec 4, 2008 at 08:50 PM
DO NOT feel the least bit sorry for any of the car dealers or there sales people!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this industry has been gouging the consumer since the automobile was invented.

Posted by: mark on Dec 4, 2008 at 08:32 PM
gurley leep bought out all the competors, so of course they are not worried. they own everything. i for one, will never shop there with them just because of that, just crush the little guy and do what they want. it has worked for them

Posted by: Anonymous on Dec 4, 2008 at 08:32 PM
Someone needs to explain to Mr. Trump that people do need to pay attention to how CEO's travel and how they waste money. If you fail to manage your money and pay your bills while living high on the hog-well don't look for me to support your lifestyle while I save and live well within my means. Mr. Trump take your fat cat ideas and cry at your fancy dealership. People that think like you and other big name dealerships are in big trouble. All those fancy show rooms, expensive commercials and slick willy salesmen that sold american made junk are singing a different song now. All that wheeling and dealing and snookering of the consumer has come to an end. Put the blame where it needs to be--on all you greedy car dealerships. Someone will step in and purchase and one or all of the big three before they close up forever. Maybe Mr. Leep, Mr. Trump and Mr. Gates should start their liquidation sales now.

Posted by: MM on Dec 4, 2008 at 06:51 PM
stop selling overpriced cars and you would have no worries.get the so called safety laws that keep out imported new and used cars from europe,asia,mexico,etc and you would have a variety to sell.


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